Talk:Scots language

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This article was nominated for deletion on 1 April 2020. The result of the discussion was keep.

This page is not a forum for general discussion about Scots and whether it is or isn't a language. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Scots and whether it is or isn't a language at the Reference desk.

Scots language was one of the Language and literature good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
April 20, 2006	Good article nominee	Listed
June 7, 2009	Good article reassessment	Delisted

Current status: Delisted good article

Scotland Top‑importance

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Languages High‑importance

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This article is written in Scottish English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, travelled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Lead sentence removal question

Does anyone have qualms with me removing the three instances of "Scots" in a row in the first sentence to reduce redundancies? As it currently reads: Scots (Scots: Scots; Scottish Gaelic: Albais/Beurla Ghallda) is a West Germanic language variety, when we could just have Scots (Scottish Gaelic: Albais/Beurla Ghallda) is a West Germanic language variety. Wolfdog (talk) 11:13, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's not redundant, it notes the term for the tongue in Scots. That in this instance a term in Scots is the same as the term in English wouldn't be evident unless it is noted. Mutt Lunker (talk) 11:53, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What about Scots (endonym: Scots; Scottish Gaelic: Albais/Beurla Ghallda) ...? –Austronesier (talk) 12:03, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly, am pondering it. Your suggestion is ~~It's~~ clear to me, provides the information about the term for Scots in Scots, though I know what endonym means. It may be less clear to those who don't know what endonym means but all they have to do is click. It may be preferable to those who are confused about what is being conveyed, per the earlier thread above. Mutt Lunker (talk) 12:11, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's clear to me as well, but only because I frequently edit WP language pages. My kneejerk feeling is that it's perplexing. I'd be on board for Austronesier's endonym workaround. Wolfdog (talk) 18:23, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, just realised I was being ambiguous. Though the current version is clear to me it does seem to perplex some people and in my last post I was meaning that Austronesier's suggestion is (also) clear to me. Go for it. Mutt Lunker (talk) 19:41, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Erm.. not directly about there being three but.. 'Beurla Ghallda' from looking around it means to 'speak with foreign tongue'.. yes that's original research and I am not going to change it myself, but couldn't that apply to any foreign language? Google translates 'Berula' as 'English'.. so is it a slight against the Scots language and so would be disqualified as hate speech on wikipedia. just some thoughts there.

Dava4444 (talk) 17:20, 18 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

All I can say is that in Gaeilge "Bérla" simply refers to the english language even if the literal meaning is different. Similar to the way "Sasanach" may literally mean foreigner but is only used to mean "English Person". WikiLearnedMeGood (talk) 19:30, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Indigenous

Should it actually be classified as an indigenous language when it came from german settlers? Shouldn't the indigenous language be a celtic language like Gaelic? Malcolmmwa (talk) 00:39, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

By that logic, celtic languages wouldn't count either as the celtic settlers didn't spring from the Scottish soil either. Or the pre-celtic ones. Mutt Lunker (talk) 10:28, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The term 'indigenous' can be used in various ways, and ideally, the qualification as 'indigenous' should always be attributed to a given source. In this case, the source is the Scottish government, as can be read in the linked web page. FWIW, the category "indigenous languages of Scotland" also includes Gaelic and English. So the ideal phrasing would be: "Scots is recognised by the Scottish government as an indigenous language of Scotland (next to Gaelic and English)". But this is just too heavy for the lede section, I guess. –Austronesier (talk) 19:02, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Scots is also from Scotland so therefore it's safe to say it's an indigenous language 2600:8801:FB13:6B00:CE9F:FED6:F584:5708 (talk) 04:57, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Danelaw influence

This article is missing any mention of Dano-English influence (from the Danelaw) on Scots, but I routinely encounter mention of this is source material (especially etymological). — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 00:00, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Distinct from the influence of Northumbria? Mutt Lunker (talk) 16:08, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article mention it "It began to further diverge from the Middle English of Northumbria due to twelfth and thirteenth-century immigration of Scandinavian-influenced Middle English-speakers from the North and Midlands of England." Nogger (talk) 18:54, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note about comparison with Danish and Norwegian

Should probably specifically refer to Bokmål. Nynorsk and Norwegian dialects in general aren’t closely related to Danish. 94.191.136.226 (talk) 17:19, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(new section)

I suck at Wiki editing but can some mod or whatever add that it's a recognised minority language in the EU too?

Source: https://www.coe.int/en/web/european-charter-regional-or-minority-languages — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.156.12.92 (talk • contribs)

Scots_language#Decline_in_status appears to deal with that. Mutt Lunker (talk) 10:43, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]